i was only following orders i was only following orders

Nazis accused of war crimes said it at Nuremberg "I was only following orders." Soldiers like Lt. William Calley accused of atrocities at My Lai in Vietnam tried it, too. Rod Powers was a retired Air Force First Sergeant with 22 years of active duty service. It is time to break the cycle. This site requires JavaScript to run correctly. This is modified by the fact that under QRs personnel are specifically forbidden to commit any war crimes under any circumstances. In 1957, the Israeli legal system established the concept of a 'blatantly illegal order' to explain when a military (or security-related) order should be followed, and when it must not be followed. For a start, people who give orders should perhaps be held more responsible for the actions and outcomes of those they coerce, he said. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Joe Halewood writes about tenant and welfare wrongs, short stories, comment, articles, humour and photography, "The economy doesn't work like most people think it works! He said that he hated this Job Centre. Our current federal government has embarked on a course that ignores the checks and balances defined by constitutional law. Doctors forbidden to prescribe ivermectin. The order was not manifestly unlawful. The decisions during these cases reaffirmed that following manifestly illegal orders is not a viable defense from criminal prosecution. As humanity rose above a subsistence level, anarchistic interpersonal relations posed a threat to harmony and survival. All content copyright original author unless stated otherwise. For example, a September 3rd, 2019, repost[4] of the meme by Redditor ElJeanMermoude received over 18,000 upvotes in /r/fakehistoryporn subreddit. However, the claim, "I was only following . Joshua Barajas is a senior editor for the PBS NewsHour's Communities Initiative. Prior work had found that brain activity is dampened when people are forced to follow orders. It gives me a purpose. The military oath taken at the time of induction into the military is as follows: "I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. A handwritten request for clemency by Adolf Eichmann, an architect of the Nazi Holocaust, who said he shouldn't be held responsible for his actions because he and other low-level officers were following orders from their superiors. These serious problems and worries are not something this government will have thought of but this is a very serious possibility of happening im the future if these sick cuts do come in next April as where the hell are 500,000 homeless people going to live? So I recognized what was going on with the pandemic. So akin to before, subjects had to decide whether to shock a person with or without coercion, but now they heard an audible tone while making the choice. . However, if it can be found that policy-makers are pushing or forcing subordinates to act unjustly in war, they can be responsible for that as well. Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms like At the beginning of the school year, several workers in the office steal office supplies such as highlighters and staplers from the supply closet for their children. Not only should an unlawful order not be obeyed, obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution. Photo by Ammar Awad/Reuters. Gina Perry, author of Shock Machine: The Untold Story of the Notorious Milgram Psychology Experiments, found a litany of methodological problems with the study. Forward march. Sometimes a soldier doesn't have a complete picture of what is going on. Probably the most famous case of the "I was only following orders" defense was the court-martial of First Lieutenant William Calley for his part in the My Lai Massacre on March 16, 1968. The first major UCMJ-related incident following Nuremburg was during inquiries and subsequent courts-martial following the My Lai Massacre of 16 March, 1968. Forward march. Pursuant to the President's instructions, a U.S. Navy captain seized a Danish Ship (the Flying Fish), which was en route from a French Port. As a result, if an employees manager or the business owner requests an employee to commit a criminal act, the employee should not do so and thereafter should speak privately with employment counsel to determine the best strategy as to that situation. The result? Women's Violence Prevention Act (South Korea), https://www.icc-cpi.int/nr/rdonlyres/ea9aeff7-5752-4f84-be94-0a655eb30e16/0/rome_statute_english.pdf, https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Nuremberg_defense&oldid=2385274, Pages using DynamicPageList parser function. The U.S. Supreme Court held that Navy commanders "act at their own peril" when obeying presidential orders when such orders are illegal. Haggards team found that brain activity in response to this tone is indeed dampened when being coerced. It is truly fascinating and instructive that human beings obviously have an innate and universal set of moral principles regardless of their geographical location, language, origin, or religion. The closest we have gotten to a authoritative government was the last guy. involved in the inquiry, writes in his autobiography that many of the officers and even senior NCOs - the "backbone of the armed forces" - were in many cases just filling dead men's shoes, given their rank purely because there was a requirement for someone to fill the position. Left: This excuse was used by the Nazi war criminals at the post World War II Nuremberg Trials. Sorry, Jeff, I couldnt understand that. We are only following orders.. These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. Online, the caption "I was just following orders* has been utilized in ironic memes, particularly in those in which various characters are edited into the photographs of 1945-1946 Nuremberg trials. You can't shoot an unarmed civilian, that goes against your principles. In this test, the agent is not under the watchful gaze of an authority figure. But, our study does suggest that this claim might potentially correspond to the basic experience that the person had of their action at the time, Haggard said. However, when President John Adams wrote the authorization order, he wrote that U.S. Navy ships were authorized to seize any vessel bound for a French port, or traveling from a French port. The Nuremberg Trials are most notable for the unsuccessful use of the I was only following orders legal defense. Nazi war criminals. All Rights Reserved, Disclaimer| Site Map| Privacy Policy |Business Development Solutions by FindLaw, part of Thomson Reuters, Wills, Trusts, Estate Planning and Administration. Adolf Eichmann was one of the most prominent Nazis to use this defense at his trial (held in Israel in 1961). Many of those defendants claimed that they were not guilty of the charges against them as they were "only following orders.". And now, lawyers for some of the Army reservists charged with abusing prisoners in Iraq say they're innocent for the same reason. The truth is about to finally hit the fan and this corrupt nazi Tory government will never be able to come back from their sickening disgusting acts that they are performing on the most invulnerable British people who are being deliberately targeted and treated like criminals and like we are pond life when we should be treated with care and compassion, a disabled person who is ruled as to be to sick to work needs help and care and compassion, we do not deserve to be victimized and treated like criminals, its not our choice to be disabled, its not something that we planned on for a career, sick and disabled people should never be treated the way that we are now, it is clear to me that this government and especially IDS mass murderer of the disabled thinks it is ok to continue his sick work of culling off and persecuting the sick and disabled in Britain, it is high time that IDS, the corrupt DWP and this government were all charged and prosecuted for the sick and twisted crimes that have been deliberately targeted at the sick and the disabled. "The Nuremberg Defense", failed and failed again at My Lai, and once more at Abu Ghraib, yet more and more I hear from young police officers that they did_____ because their "boss" (Cpl, Sgt, Lt, etc) told them too. If a person catches a serious illness at home thats ok because it can be contained but if this was to happen on the streets then there is nothing to stop other people from catching this and it becoming wide spread just like a normal cold can be caught. Delivery & Pickup Options - 3 reviews of Korea Taqueria "Been following one of the owners since his food truck days and I always loved the Korean fusion from Paper Mill Foods spurrito truck so it's great to see a brick and mortar with another fun fusion! If they attempt to force you to comply with an unconstitutional law, what action will you take? I have documented via petitions to every court in this nation and the OAS that all these simple principles ( natural law, common law and equity ) are ignored in every court in the former USA, pursuant to Executive Orders proclaiming bogus STATES of Emergency which results in judges conducting courts under summary procedures aka martial law rule. An order to perform a military duty, no matter how dangerous, is lawful as long as it doesn't involve the commission of a crime. Your conscience tells you that the Nazi party's discrimination of various groups is wrong, but you are going to be in the Werhmacht, far away from the atrocities of the death camps. The defence of I was obeying orders is not valid if those orders command an illegal act - like murder. Place yourself in the boots of a citizen in Germany, 1940. Similarly, if an employee were to at the bequest of her boss defraud a customer or vendor, she could be personally liable for the harm committed and possibly be found guilty of a crime. An order to commit a crime is unlawful. Your email address will not be published. Ethical problems arise when the mechanisms of government are perverted to grant excessive authority and privilege to the ruling class, who then enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. In United States v. Keenan, the accused (Keenan) was found guilty of murder after he obeyed an order to shoot and kill an elderly Vietnamese citizen. All Rights Reserved. Worse I hear from bosses that they expect officers to follow orders without any discussion and especially without any dissent. In other words, you have to pass yourself off as having been ignorant of the law, but even that defense is not tolerated in especially gross cases. Occasionally, the Nuremberg Defense is referred to as the Eichmann defense. If someone asks you if you're a god, you say, "Yes! If people acting under orders really do feel reduced responsibility, this seems important to understand. The UCMJ actually protects the soldier in this situation as he/she has a moral and legal obligation to the Constitution and not to obey unlawful orders and the people who issue them. Thus the argument, "I was only following orders" became difficult to prove - no-one was really sure who was competent enough to give orders, nor of the mental state (considering post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)) of those who followed them. Vaccine protection durable. Some heard an endless series of self-contradictions and unapologetic 180-degree reversals. This model of limited responsibility with limited will can apply to any situation with military orders and even beyond the scope of the military. A jury found Murdaugh guilty of murdering his wife and son. Not only is Rowe a dedicated cheerleader, but she is a great student as well. states that the Serviceman is to obey the "lawful command of his superior https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-the-nazis-defense-of-just-following-orders-plays-out-in-the-mind, criticize the famous electric-shock study. Historians have incessantly warned us not to disregard the lessons of history lest we repeat failures that could have been avoided. Back in DecemberThe Poor Side of Lifemade the following observation: I was stopped by a homeless chap who wanted to congratulate us on our hard work. The defense I was only following orders is sometimes referred to as the Nuremberg defense. Haggard said they used moderately painful, but tolerable, shocks. Milgram feigned shocks up to 450 volts. Everything2 is brought to you by Everything2 Media, LLC. Holocaust survivors and their families in Israel today will readily affirm their solemn pledge, Never again!. Thus the argument, "I was only following orders" became difficult to prove - no-one was really sure who was competent enough to give orders, nor of the mental state (considering post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)) of those who followed them. Nashua Office:20 Trafalgar SquareSuite 505Nashua, NH 03063, Portsmouth Office:155 Fleet StreetPortsmouth, NH 03801, 2023 Hamblett & Kerrigan, P.A. Generally, employees are liable for their own wrongful acts irrespective of whether or not they were doing so at the bequest of their boss. In the last century, humanity has faced this moral dilemma too often, rarely with acceptable results. Be very afraid. As you consider your response, remember the lessons of history. UCMJ was invoked again during the inquiry into the Iran-Contra Affair, in 1987. He didnt stand a chance. The time between the action and its outcome is typically experienced as a simultaneous event. Often the use of deadly force is necessary to stop a criminal in police work, just as in international affairs.<P>As for following orders; Not only were these people not given any choice (disobey . We were only following orders - Nuremberg Trials (1945 - 1946) Alec Rem 831 subscribers Subscribe 307K views 9 years ago We were only following orders - Nuremberg Trials (1945 - 1946) Show more. The biggest argument I can see against this is who should get the blame then? So help me God". All it takes to become a victim is compliance. The changing relative values of violence, strength, and mental ability required different guidelines to ensure acceptable behavior in a group setting. "I was only following orders," has been unsuccessfully used as a legal defense in hundreds of cases (probably most notably by Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg tribunals following World War II). In fact, referring to what Col North should have obeyed: UCMJ is yet again being invoked now by some opponents of the recent conflict in Iraq, who claim that the conflict contravened the United Nations Charter, the Geneva Conventions and International Law. Oh you will pop action t4 into a search engine it will show you sites explaining it and the summer of forty one will show you whot had happened dont be sad has of not nowing but is it history repeating itself if for some reason you cant find the refrance just ask il send a link to it jeff3, Here we go http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/euthanasia.htm, Now rtu ids said we were stock and that culling of the stock was uttered by him so perhaps hes doing this through denial of benefits but aktion t4 it seems they past that figure makes you think. Probably the most famous case of the "I was only following orders" defense was the court-martial of First Lieutenant William Calley for his part in the My Lai Massacre on March 16, 1968. For example, on February 8th, 2019, YouTube[2] user Etheral Snake posted a humorous video titled "Thomas was only following orders" in which Thomas the Tank Engine, a defendant during the Nuremberg trials, recollects serving as a train delivering Jews to the Nazi concentration camps during the World War II. But these men with guns and authority tell you to do so, and if you oppose orders of an officer, you risk death even yourself! That defense was first used in a 1799 naval blockade case and subsequently has been used in military cases related to the Vietnam War more often than in any other conflict. He had severe mental health and addiction problems. Most nations signatory to the United Nations Charter also enshrine the Nuremburg Principle in their respective national law. Your email address will not be published. Subscribe to Here's the Deal, our politics newsletter. These men issued orders and carried out their own inhumane actions without prompting from a higher echelon. Evil never sleeps. Imagine numerous scenarios in which law enforcement personnel are ordered to enforce laws that both they and you know are unconstitutional and morally wrong. Fire hundreds of nurses and techs who refuse vaccination. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Last edited by Rain/Storm ; 19 minutes ago. If you are the person who placed the order, you should have received a confirmation email shortly after completing your transaction. But thanks for taking the time to comment anyway. I enjoyed barking orders more than I enjoyed following them. On August 27the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) announced that the number who died while claiming incapacity benefits between January 2011 and February 2014 was a shocking 91,740. Right shoulder arms. Large gatherings forbidden. You had no choice in the National Socialist party coming to power, you had no choice to be born in Germany and because of restrictions, you cannot escape to a neutral country such as Switzerland. All is lost until some large organization like the Institute for Justice, brings themselves to attack the basic root of the problem and millions of Americans file Petitions similar to mine at: http://onlinedocketssc.flcourts.org/DocketResults/CaseDocket?Searchtype=Case+Number&CaseYear=2018&CaseNumber=1540. Haggards team also used a questionnaire in the second experiment to get explicit judgments from the volunteers, who explained they felt less responsible when they acted under orders. They won, and the United States Supreme Court upheld the decision. But does the military member have a duty to DISOBEY unlawful orders including orders of senior officers, Secretary of Defense and even the President of the United States? Doctors are independent professionals. The process worked. Evil never sleeps. Scottish Civic Nationalism? A platoon from 11th Brigade, led by First Lieutenant William Calley, herded 327 old men, women and children - even babies - from the Vietnamese hamlet of My Lai into a ditch and shot them all dead. The latest news on WordPress.com and the WordPress community. Masks essential wear two. For employers, management should be provided ethical training specific to your business with a clearly expressed expectation of honesty. You figure you are probably bound for battlefields of France or Russia or perhaps the Battle of Britain. However, the public outcry in the United States following this highly-publicized, controversial trial was such thatPresident Nixongranted him clemency. Public interest issues, policy, equality, human rights, social science, analysis, the view from the dark side: politics, media, cities & culture, Blogging about music from early 80s indie to Britpop and beyond, The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. Plato, FATHER + SAILOR + TECHNOLOGIST + MUSICIAN + CYCLIST. Subscribe to Heres the Deal, our politics Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. "The Nuremberg Defense", failed and failed again at My Lai, and once more at Abu Ghraib, yet more and more I hear from young police officers that they did_____ because their "boss" (Cpl, Sgt, Lt, etc) told them too. I rose to the rank of corporal but was a squad leader. Learn more about Friends of the NewsHour. Squad halt. We were invaders. Shockingly, the results suggested any human was capable of a heart of darkness. Although pleas from the unknown person could be heard, including mentions of a heart condition, Milgrams study said his volunteers continued to shock the learner when ordered to do so. To obey orders without thinking. An order to commit a crime such as abusing a prisoner of war is obviously unlawful. 3. We weren't doing anything or going anywhere. Worse I hear from bosses that they expect officers to follow orders without any discussion and especially without any dissent. He was sanctioned, and without warm clothes and very little food he fell asleep on the streets and never woke up. A books, movies, and more blog from the staff at the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh - Main. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Scan this QR code to download the app now. The Economic Crisis: How Did We GetHere? Canadian Disability Studies specialist and disability activistSamuel Miller, has been communicating frequently and voluntarily, since January 2012, to senior United Nations officials, on the welfare crisis for the United Kingdoms sick and disabled. But all German military personal from the lowest private to the highest field-marshall had a pay-book with a number of absolute commitments in the front. Photo courtesy of Reuters. The duty and obligation to obey lawful orders creates no grey area for discussion. I would say that the person who signed the order should be the one punished. The process worked. The term is now essentially synonymous with the phrase "I was only following orders", a phrase that has been used in defending accused war criminals for centuries. Thank you. They are legislating by executive decree, ignoring restrictions on constitutional authority, putting our national economy and personal financial futures at enormous risk, and imposing laws and penalties on citizens without due process. However, I believe one should draw a line of distinction between those who had the power to issue orders and those who had to carry them out. To be a hero requires courage in the face of adversity. Attorney Marr is licensed and practices in both NewHampshire and Massachusetts. Vicious dictators like Stalin and Mao, together responsible for killing over 100 million people, died of natural causes. The Nuremberg Trials of German war criminals after World war II determined that this is no defense, and that some orders are illegal and must not be followed. Nothing to worry about. For example, on October 19th, 2019, Redditor[6] k00ji posted a Rapper Mario meme which received over 11,000 upvotes in /r/okbuddyretard (shown below, left). Management and the owners should further realize that if an employee is willing to assist in doing a bad act against someone else that employee could later turn on management or the owners with a similar nefarious act. While Hitler himself and some of his inner circle committed suicide in Berlin, some of the Nazi leaders involved in the Holocaust and other crimes against humanity stood trial in Nuremberg after the end of World War II. Similar arguments with respect to UK Service Law and Queen's Regulations are also being made. It depends on the order. This was in part clarified in the Fred Fuller New Hampshire Supreme Court decision. In the Uniform Code of Military Justice, there is discussion concerning lawful versus unlawful orders, a critical distinction that is difficult or even impossible to define. Squad halt. Only Following Orders. Until one day you are given a notice, you were conscripted into the Waffen-SS, along with another 200,000 Wehrmacht guys, to be sent as guards to a concentration camp.