It sounds crazy, but I just knew. But he was not sure. The doctor or midwife looking after you will let you know before you come. I hated my body and hated every feeling I was having. So carried on with the plans, and, you know, planning for the, another baby to come along and then we went for a 20- week scan which is obviously the big one and very exciting, seeing all the arms and legs and once again everything was going fine, 'Look here's the baby, here's the length of baby'. The pain was excruciating, but nothing compared to how I felt inside. [Husband] couldn't make it. My partner was away working and was waiting to hear whether he was having a son or daughter. But the closeness has remained after the drama has died down. If you choose not to have the scan you can still have all other parts of your routine antenatal care. That he was small. It's part of our family. So she said, 'Come back on Monday. You will be able to discuss this with your midwife or consultant. No one else attended and we didn't have a service. The results come in stages. I think what everyone is saying is that most likely outcome is that there are no problems at all. The consultant had said it wouldn't be like a normal delivery. Please note that the opinions expressed by users in Tommys Book of #misCOURAGE are solely those of the user, who is unlikely to have had medical training. Instead, I had to raise a glass of water to my mouth, take a swig and swallow the tablet. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see '. But it is a soft marker for Edwards' syndrome. Within two days I was waiting in my local EPU unit for further tests. That they could have spotted something, or not? It was interesting - well it was fantastic to see this fetus and to see this child that was yours that was horribly ill - but you didn't really get much opportunity to see that because the consultant was more about measurements and all sorts of blood flow and various other screens coming up. Limitations of the 18-20 week scan I was then told yet again bad news. And of course some other measurements she needed to take like the width of the skull, which she couldn't take because the fetus was in the wrong position. Others said they were shocked because all the early diagnostic tests (e.g. I was sent home with a leaflet, strong painkillers and two types of antibiotics. We had the 20 week scan yesterday and got some devastating news. And I remember, the first thing I remember when something might be wrong, was I saw, I finally, we finally saw an image of the skull on the screen, and there appeared to be a sort of black hole shape in the middle. The scan will find about half (50%) of those babies who have heart defects. The contractions started very quickly and within an hour my waters had broken. Previous scans in this pregnancy and with my first child had been fun - a chance to see the baby wriggling around and perhaps find out its sex. Later, I did see and hold our baby. I believed at this point I had miscarried, they wanted me to come back I'm for a follow up scan. It was just sort of deadpan faces, very serious looks, someone else coming to check. Have I misunderstood what's going on?' I had an appointment with my consultant 2 days later, and again he said, you know, 'Very common - shouldn't worry about it too much, you know, if, the problem is if they find anything else wrong'. There is more detailed information about the main conditions that are looked for during this scan on NHS.UK. 2022. Next most likely is that baby doesn't co-operate and they can't see some parts of anatomy and call you back 2 weeks later just because they couldn't see (i had this but because twin pregnancy I was due to be scanned 2 weeks later anyway). Where we were living then at the time you only had a scan at 20 weeks. But I was struggling mentally with the anguish, grief and endless hospital visits. I didn't want to go through anymore scans. And before they gave me any of the results she asked a colleague to come and told me she wanted to check something, with a colleague, and by then I was getting very concerned because I'd never had that happen before. I think they perhaps could have done, if they had looked a bit closely. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. Dont worry we wont send you spam or share your email address with anyone. We've joined the grown-ups and we both feel very different. Read full disclaimer. If necessary, you will be referred to a specialist, possibly in another hospital. But she told us, she told us, she gave us some more detail, she said, 'There's this, there's a big gap in the brain where there shouldn't be'. For example, you may be offered further tests that have a risk of miscarriage. I've still had no cramps or bleeding so fingers crossed everything is ok I just couldn't believe I fell down the stairs, I can't remember the last time I ever did that! We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". We use some essential cookies to make this website work. 80 percent of my pregnancies have ended in death and I felt like they were telling me those babies didn't matter. Then, three days later, I would go to the labour ward - the ward I had been expecting to visit in two and a half months. Again, no notes can have been written down because the midwife asked the same question. I want to be happy again. I don't know how we got through the next couple of days. Sam followed and I broke down. Never lacking a sense of the dramatic, it felt as if we shared the responsibility for the terrible, dirty act that we had committed. And in this instance the scan was very evident that there was something very seriously wrong. I feel empty and incomplete. No discussion, no quiet contemplation. The termination would be averting a tragedy. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. I travelled to work that day feeling amazing. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. And that was extraordinary to see the detail that that could offer. And she sort of got up and walked out of the room and called someone in. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. I was given a leaflet and told to return four days later to see the consultant. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". Except for the persistent, nagging doubts. I felt the dread run through me. And I could see, before she even said anything I could see that there was something wrong with the heart. I give pregnant women dirty looks. But now that's changed. I know I could have delivered him in a quarter of the time, but I couldn't bear the thought of him leaving me. Several parents said they would have preferred being told something, even it was vague. So at least then we went to that next stage prepared for the worst really. I couldn't bring myself to push. Mm-hm. You may like someone to come with you to the scan appointment. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. Reading individual, real-life experiences can be a helpful resource, but it is never a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment from a qualified health care provider. On the next shift, the new midwife asked us again. So on the Monday we went in to see the senior sonographer, I think she was a consultant at the hospital. I had never imagined having an amniocentesis. It doesn't remove the guilt, but I don't know what else to do. Which she reassured us that she'd be absolutely fine, this was a one-off. It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan . For many other women, the 18-20 week scan was the point at which they discovered the baby had serious problems. And having read, since read my information on Edwards' syndrome, a good 85 per cent have problems with the heart. They would then re-test me in two days time. It was all going wrong and I wanted to get as far away from the hospital as possible. I guess the morphine made it easier. No one else felt him kick. Because, when you're angry with the world for dealing you such a shit time, you begin to hate the people who populate it. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. Picture every packed football staduim up and down the country - all healthy pregnancies and births. Most hospitals do not allow children to attend scans as childcare is not usually available. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. He was tiny, perfect and a Down's syndrome baby. See you in -. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. We didn't name him. I have a terrible hatred of pregnant women and a new respect for infertile couples. Everywhere you look, there are happy, fat, smug pregnant women. the amniocentesis) and the pregnancy had already ended, or because the scan was not routinely offered in their region 5 or more years ago. Some people want to find out if their baby has one of the 11 conditions and some do not. We had the same conversation, but obviously were not making any sense to her at all. Never being able to look after himself. So we decided that, to have the scan and we went along I think early in the week for that, and spent quite a lot of time with the consultant after that. I'm trying to understand because I haven't seen a 3-D scan, what it tells the parents? As I was called for my scan I was nervous and emotional. I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. And they took me into another room. unfortunately the 20 week anomaly scan can pick up serious issues, hearing heart beats at midwife appointment doesn't let us know what's going on inside the body in detail. The sonographer then passes a hand-held probe over your skin to examine the babys body. All the time, the baby was kicking and I felt like a murderer waiting to strike her victim. hi ladies. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. And I, and, I felt the weight of deciding what to do about it. Eventually, the midwife said to us very sweetly, "I think we should deliver the baby now." And I, my husband and I both ran our own business at the time so we were desperate to get back and do some work, and things were going really well, so.. You may need to have a full bladder when you come for the appointment. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? We couldn't say we'd lost the baby, because he was still kicking away, but we couldn't pretend everything was fine, either. We thought it would all be over very quickly but, in fact, it was another 11 hours before the baby was delivered. We talked about the different sorts of pain relief I could have and I opted for a morphine drip, which I could control. At this point it wasn't looking great. The same anxious wait for a little, pathetic cry. The same sense of expectation. The week that followed was an agonising wait. So instead, I was advised to go home and let nature take its course. I came back probably about 17 weeks pregnant and had the anomaly scan at 20 weeks and like most people expected everything to be fine and to come away with a lovely picture but unfortunately that isn't what happened. But no. And nothing prepares you at all. Enough for two weeks after he had been cremated. I've realised that being a nice person is a luxury some can't afford. They sort of drew some diagrams, and they said, 'But we need to refer you to a specialist to confirm the diagnosis'. I didn't want to be convincing him to agree with me. 'Soft markers'. Can't seem to find info on the Internet. And they took us out of the scanning room, into a more quiet room while they typed up the report. As two youngest siblings, we were both permanently stuck in the irresponsible, childish role. It was over. She describes having to make a . My wife turned the screen away from her. We were bound to each other because of the blood that was on both our hands. But they didn't. I remember thinking, 'Gosh' I now know it was a girl, I didn't know that then, that, 'She looks just like her brother'. I give obsessively to charity, especially those linked to sick children. Just that really! And the next day we went back to the hospital and we had another scan with a specialist, and he confirmed it was a condition called holoprosencephaly, which I'd never heard of any of these words before, they were just such long words. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). We had the baby cremated. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. 10/03/2021 16:13, @Cormoransjacket Our position in our families has shifted. I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. And at that, I let out a scream I think. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. This scan takes place between 18 weeks and 20 weeks 6 days of pregnancy and is commonly called the 20-week scan. He bluntly told me, he wasn't interested in whatever was seen before, he was only going to go by what he saw that day. I was becoming numb to the whole process. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. And I said, I was still laughing, and I thought he was joking with me, and he said now I sort of could tell from his face that by that point he wasn't really joking anymore. For five months my body had known there was something wrong, yet I had felt fantastic. Not marginalised into being a victim. But you could see there was something wrong? . I was willing the results to be normal. Perhaps because we are alone in this, it has brought my partner and me very close. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. Yeah - in, stomach, out. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. Anyway we went in for the meeting with the consultant on this particular time, and we'd got to, I was 30 weeks pregnant by then. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. Sam reassured me, but the guilt had hit me along with the feeling that our world was falling apart. The thing about that which I felt was difficult is that we could tell when being scanned that there was something very seriously wrong. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. He felt strong and fit and healthy. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. The consultant showed us the letter with our result on and, yes, there were the words "Down's syndrome". By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. The blood test confirmed it was twins. You have rejected additional cookies. Went off for the 20-week scan, which you didn't, you weren't there, were you, for the first scan? Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. And then I can't remember an awful lot more about that scan apart from that feeling of searching of how to react in an unknown situation - your brain's kind of trying to work out what to say, what to do, but I had no idea what to say or what to do and I think my first thought was, does that mean our first daughter's okay? I was young, I didn't need one. I had to stop myself from yanking out the needle. The first result, which tells you if the baby has Down's syndrome, is ready in three days, but the other chromosomal problems cannot be eliminated for up to three weeks. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. But other than that everything was fine. And I am slowly coming to terms with what has happened. They said the brain was okay -, We were in there for a matter of minutes, literally -, In and out. So he was about two weeks smaller than what he should have been. She wanted to have a look at the skull, which was the main thing, but she couldn't see it from where the baby was. Some of the conditions that can be seen on the scan will mean the baby may need treatment or surgery after it is born, for example cleft lip. Still, the consultant thought things would be OK. At that point, I got very not upset but quite sort of strongly severe sort of with the people at the hospital saying, 'Look, you know, that's 24 hours, possibly a 48 hours' wait - that's not something that's tenable. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". But before he could speak, he, too, had broken down. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. There was cause for concern. It went from bad, to worse, to worse, to dire, then to better. My partner went out with him, wanting to see him. And attribute some blame to them. We just couldn't use the words. Several women had taken young children with them to the 20-week scan because they expected to see 'nice pictures of the baby'. By the time I left the hospital, I was in shock. Baby loss support Forcing my hand to my mouth to take the tablet was probably the hardest thing I have ever done. It seemed inconceivable that we would not be having a baby in May. 15/02/2014 08:02. He wanted to talk about it, but I didn't. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. I did think it was a bit strange that she wasn't talking, and then she sort of said, 'Oh, I think there's a problem. That was an extremely difficult day. We bought a two tests that evening (quite lucky as I messed the first one up!). So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. I have horrible thoughts. My partner tried to remain calm, and at my request rang my mum. So we gave up and said we'd arrange the funeral ourselves. There were also two spots on his heart, which were "soft markers" for Down's syndrome. I wanted to be a passive patient while the doctor did what he had to do. The nursery I had selected for our two-year-old son; my maternity leave; the bunk beds; the summer holiday suitable for a newborn baby. I couldn't have the added responsibility for changing his mind. But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. Specialist scans I am a darker, harder version of myself. In a small number of cases some very serious conditions are found. And she said that, you know, as the, if the baby did develop further there would probably be other problems with internal organs that weren't really that visible at that stage. It was horrible. I didn't sleep that night I don't think. blood tests, CVS) were clear - and as one woman put it, 'after the triple test* (Down's syndrome screening) you stop thinking anything can go wrong'. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. Entering the labour ward, I waited for someone to say, "Go home, you are 16 weeks too early." Another sick joke. But worse was to come. I was wondering if anyone has been is this situation and can give me a glimmer of hope. On the third day, we got a phone call. At which point they turned round and said, 'Well, there is something very seriously wrong with the baby, we don't know exactly what, but you do need to have a more in-depth scan at your regional hospital to find out the detail'. As though I went power mad for a week, killing my innocent unborn child, and now I am tainted for ever. As you felt that, you know, it was probably going to show lots of problems and it just wasn't what we wanted, but at the same time we needed to sort of see it and, we needed to prove it I suppose. The only thing you're thinking now is the birth, and what if something goes wrong in the birth? And the first few things they said it didn't sound as thing, as though things were terribly wrong. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests, Ending the pregnancy for family & personal reasons, Deciding whether to see, hold and name the baby, Photographs and other mementoes of the baby, Saying goodbye to the baby - services & funerals, Coping with bereavement - women's experiences, Coping with bereavement - men's experiences, Men's ideas about their role in ending a pregnancy. So choroid plexus cysts on their own, no problem, but if there's something else wrong, then that's a problem. But you know I knew we had, we had to make a decision that was right for the baby as well. We were convinced everything would be OK. So I no longer trusted my instincts. Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. Because we knew that that wasn't normal, that wasn't what we'd experienced before, it wasn't just the, 'There's the arm, there's the leg, oh look the baby's moving'. I noticed the box of tissues on the table. Can you remember that minute. I could hardly breathe. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. If this happens, you will be offered one further scan by 23 weeks of pregnancy. I managed to tell my mum, who said she would come with us to the hospital. I had to take a tablet there and then, under the supervision of a nurse, to end the pregnancy. Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. There was a very marked lack of amniotic fluid which made it difficult, not even for the scanners to see, that made the picture of the scan look very, very different. And it's like, I really wanted to see it and I didn't, and it was it was very mixed. But on, in the middle of March, 10th March it was, we had a 20 week scan. We'd sort of put those discussions to the back of our mind, and then all of a sudden there are other abnormalities so yeah it was a bit a bit of a shocker [laughs]. You might be offered another test to find out for certain if your baby has one of the conditions. But with time although we will never forget, I know we will be ok again. This might be uncomfortable.