That's the Army's ace in the hole. ADDED QUESTION: What, in your opinion, is the average view of Army Aviation within the perspectives of your peers? (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) This mindset is far from universal, but its prevalent enough that the Academy actually had pilot slots go unfilled a few years ago! The Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. I was under the impression that the bonus went away when they upped the 10+ year flight pay. Also, it ap-plies to the Regular Army and Reserve Component officers (Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve) ordered into aviation service by the Secretary of the Army and applies to all commissioned and warrant officers who are training for or have Army aeronautical ratings. I think that mindser still exists. This used to be unheard of. No additional time added with a BRADSO. That was the last straw for several senior pilots in my battalion and the majority of them retired after/because of that deployment when they had intended to stay in for at least a few more years. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. The root cause cited by those transitioning at various levels has related to toxic climates, mismanagement of professional profiles, quality of life, and unit culture. Looks like 11-11.5 year total commitment. Look down many of us are after something a little more challenging than the admin tasks of a 1SG or CSM. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. For example, its the only service that allows people to go into flight training with only a high school degree. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. In the same discussion about retention data, Brig. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to. The Army is the only service which allow non college graduates in being Officers and pilots as we know. However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. In an all-volunteer force, you won't be ready if most of your personnel in a critical branch want to get out. Discretionary pay intended to be used as needed to address retention problems. What if Stans 5-year ADSC runs out as the next SARS/Swine Flu/COVID-type pandemic puts hiring on hold? I assume you're in flight school officially once completing BCT and WOCS. No one knows somehow, my S1 doesnt know either. Pasted as rich text. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. , you must start on Active Duty. The U.S. Army Aviation Center Survival Escape Resistance and Evasion (SERE-C) course. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? junglerekon 2 yr. ago The TIG start isn't official yet. Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. All branches in the military are facing a pilot shortage. Note: The waiver authority for this requirement is the Commanding General, U.S. Army Aviation Center, Fort Rucker, AL 36362-5000. . Full disclosure, I was a street to seat Warrant that served for 24 years. D. Your email address will not be published. Regarding the future Army Commissioned Lts in wishing to branch aviation, that will be an issue next year. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. Up to $15K per year payable to officers drawing Optometrist Regular Special Pay who have completed initial ADSO for education and training, and who execute a 12-month active duty service agreement. When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. With survey data in hand, the Army will likely find that it needs to continue to invest in its aircraft fleet to ensure pilots receive adequate flight hours to remain proficient. The report focused on the unmet demand for pilots in the commercial aviation sector that has attracted military pilots. But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. The. Deployments are great flying, but terrible on a family. Furthermore, the Army should implement quality of life and quality of service surveys for every pilot who remains. I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. The Army increased monthly pilot pay from a maximum of $850 per month to $1000 per month, offered $35,000 annual bonuses to qualified warrant officers who extend for three years, and reduced combined training center rotations to two per twelve-month period for each combat aviation brigade. If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. Ironically, the reason why Congress established a limit on entry into flight training is because the Army in the late 60's and early 70's started to funnel relatively large numbers of maneuver General Officers through flight school. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? Army is trying to get payback for their costs, but that will be increasingly hard to do if airlines are hiring. No. One year dedicated to reset, one to training, one to deployment. Unlike pilot deployments that can be as short as a couple of months, engineer deployments are usually 6-12 months. Hopefully with the new 10 year ADSO aviation will assess more senior NCOs. Whatever path you end up taking, please consider taking a UPT slot when offered. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. They require more time for people to gain experience. Brennan Randelis a captain in the United States Army and is the former commander of Alpha Company, 4-2 Attack Battalion stationed at Camp Humphreys, South Korea. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. I'm roaring and ready to go. Although 10 years of Active Duty feels like a long time, its not that much longer than the alternatives. This! Were you planning on doing it for less than 10 years?, His answer was, Of course not. Lasting solutions must come in the form of quality of life and quality of service improvements. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. F-22 crew chief: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe. What are a few of the issues which the Army could resolve for aviators? If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. This 10 year commitment will definitely dissuade him from the Army. If the Army rescinds this ADSO and reverts to the original six-year obligation, it will have six years to develop solutions to increase retention. self refer to ASAP, mental health, yea you can get out but you're not going to fly on the outside. Its a lot to ask. Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. 10 year ADSO started FY21. Back in the 1950s, the Army ask for a waiver in not paying flight pay for its pilots. Like it or not, you need to accrue that experience one way or another. I got out because I wanted to fly, but kept getting stuck in staff positions where I either couldn't fly, or had limited opportunities to fly. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. So why are aviators getting out? He is the author of thejumo brief, a free weekly newsletter for Army leaders. Well, when you have a system that initially punishes critical thinking, then requires it later on down the line, you're creating your own problem that ends up causing its own problems. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) That's my issue (age waiver). Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and. While a longer ADSO may help from looking solely at the numbers, it won't be effective at retaining quality talent. West Point graduates have a 5 year commissioning ADSO. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. Before trying to add more pilots, or change quality of life (which I don't think they're trying to do), they should look at leveling the demands on pilots within the ranks. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Why would you stay in the Army where you barely get to be a normal human, where you could make twice the pay, work half the amount, and actually get to live a somewhat normal life? I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. Yes, they will retain aviators when the quality of life increases for aviation, not just grinding us into the ground until a new command comes along every 12-18 months and does it all over again. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. There is no reset. Aviation continuation pay 2 . Then 10 year service obligation put me right at 20 so Im not too worried about that. This is not going to end well until leaders finally understand that there has to be a work/life balance. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. The BRADSO and PADSO portions of CSP remain in effect. Such changes may affect my status, While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. More than likely the Lts selected will be lower on the Order of Merit List. Especially if they view retention as a big enough problem to justify an additional 4 year commitment from aviators. That will solve our retention problem!" What are the chances of getting picked up. Although I like to poke my Active Duty friends in the chest by asking, What do you love about military aviation that you cant also get in the Guard or Reserves? Ill admit that there are some benefits to Active Duty military service. 10 is nuts. I bet less than 300 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. Their workload is increased several fold versus the units that they are supporting. By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. We need people with your background, dedication and professionalism in the warrant officer cohort. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. I will still try to join but maybe that's because I'm retarded, Guess my packet will go back on the share drive. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. Ideally, hed also earn his Instrument Rating, and build as much experience as possible. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a suddenBAM! If you havent already read Part, Part 1: Air Force Reserve Officers Training Corps (AFROTC) Table of Contents What is AFROTC? Thats at least 2 moves and several TDYs in the space of about 2 years. Is it only for new guys coming in? You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. Can't be branched aviation. If ATPs are granted, I'll be the first one to sign up as a warrant officer. The report included a figure showing that the Army faced a shortfall of 330 warrant officerswho comprise 70 percent of the Armys pilot ranks. It doesn't matter that the WOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. That's the Army's ace in the hole. It must continue to remove burdens that plague the warrant officer community, such as non-pilot-related duties and frequent deployments to combat training centers. I spend almost 20 years missing opportunities due to family, deployments, school, and fear to change. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? It turns out that even one year is a big difference. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. Yeah a lot of questions for those of us that came into this planning on a 6 year deal. In the end, it's the Army getting a good return on the investments.. On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. NG will have 10 years. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. As a Guard or Reserve pilot, you may need to find a full-time flying job in addition to your military flying (full-time Guard/Reserve pilot jobs are available, but you should join with the expectation of needing civilian employment in addition to your military flying). However, if you missed that boat youre far better off taking an Active Duty UPT slot than trying Stans way and doing 5 years as in a non-flying job. If I am a scholarship Cadet, I understand that upon completion of my initial 4 year ROTC ADSO, I . The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. Why or why not? Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots retention in the future. I don't know how common my situation is, but I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who barely flew, while there are others flying until they drop. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. I dont think I wouldve taken the 10 Year ADSO, considering that Id just now be ALMOST complete with 10 yrs aviation service. Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. Posted on . So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a sudden.BAM! If you love the flying youre doing, and you have a squadron of good people, any assignment can be a great experience, no matter how busy you are. If you accept an Army scholarship or fellowship, you will owe 3 times the amount or schooling in days. I honestly don't believe that the way out of this is getting more people to fly that have less time available left in their military careers. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator, according to an all Army activity message published Aug. 12. Your previous content has been restored. I would also say if the Army wants to recruit more street to seat, I would require those people to attend Basic Training at FT Benning and intensify the military training for non-prior service WOCs. The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? 2-4 more moves for assignments during his Active Duty career. It does have the potential to get him to the airlines more quickly, and hed do all of his military flying in the Guard or Reserve (with Quality of Life far superior to Active Duty, in most cases). For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can . They think this is going to solve the shortage. We should approach our congressmen to change the re-entry rules to allow ATPs. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. reenlistment document. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. Were looking at troops selected for flight training in the fiscal year 2021 and beyond.. Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. We are always either training or deploying. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. I remember when they tried to get aviators out of the "sack" flight suit and into Nomex BDUs to make them more soldierly. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Just sign away your life until you're 34!". Do that and fix quality of life issues. Many aviators got tripped up by it in the last few years in the push to get to the airlines. I just signed my WOFT contract at MEPS on Thursday with the idea of a 6 year ADSO. While Stans Option #3 seems to bypass a lot of this, lets look at what hed have to do: This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. Once he identified some units in which hes interested in, hed need to start. He was thinking about turning down an Active Duty UPT slot and fulfilling the alternative 5-year USAFA non-pilot ADSC as an engineer or something, then pursuing a UPT slot with a Guard or Reserve unit. I'm in better shape today than I was 10 years ago. And finally, the Army will likely find that it should increase flight pay beyond what has already been offered. Sounds great! Before Army Secretary Ryan D. McCarthy signed a memorandum for the change in June, the Army had bumped up its incentive pay for aviators in January. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. The best pilots I have served with were prior NCOs. In order to figure out the pros and cons of these different options, we first need to compare the timelines side by side. That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. Subject to the needs of the Army, newly rated aviators should be used in operational flying duty positions immedi-ately after their successful completion of Army aviation flight training. Just so we know I'm not a whiny do nothing: seven deployments, six combat for a total of 70 months and 66 months respectively. As several others have said, this policy fails to address the root problems high OPTEMPO, poor quality of life, irrelevant mandatory training, etc. I at least expected a survey or something from the Aviation branch to ask why I was leaving, but again, nothing. They used their experience to mentor and groom all the other warrants around them including myself. Signal: The IT department of the Army. I ended up not joining because they increased the ADSO. If you want military aviation to be a part of your life for more than 10 years, possibly even 20+ years, you should pursue any path that will get you there! . That's not what I am talking about. "We probably need to look at it and adjust it a . I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. The upper age limit to enter flight training is established in law and requires Congressional action. , I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. Think they will pay the bonuses and flight pay like the other branches? This may be because the Army has not undertaken the same in-depth approach to understanding this problem as other services. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. Im scheduled to graduate, 1st or 2nd week of September. It's kinda like a Yelp! It was not a wild decision to take a small hit to accession to make sure you have mid careerists. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. The impact on warrant officers may be as severe as the impact on would-be aviation lieutenants. June 22, 2022; a la carte wedding flowers chicago; used oven pride without gloves; army aviation 10 year adso . I still don't understand how this ADSO extension is going to fix any of those issues, though it may act as a "gotcha" to get people "over the hill" in their Army career where they wouldn't feel like a transition at 10-12 years of service would be a good decision. I want to do it for as long as I can. The AvB is used to offer bonuses to aviators with critical skills or MOSs. Privacy Policy. Back then the Army had a hard-on for pilots. Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) People have no time to actually live their lives. If you want to. In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. This is the second part of a series about choosing between military and civilian career options. That being said, they let you fly as your primary duty and fly cooler airframes. Like it or not, you need to accrue that experience one way or another, First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. The army has never been good at personnel management. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. The pay and benefits arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. It explains how to perform well in your training, I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a. is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. The Army, by contrast, could only say that Army senior leaders recognize there are growing civilian opportunities for Army pilots. Our young NCOs want to become warrant officers and get out and fly. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? That evens the odds even more. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. The U-2 and B-2 are both single-location aircraft, and they go through so much trouble getting their pilots that youd have to try to leave. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. This is both expensive and time-consumingtough to fit in around a 9-5 as an engineer, especially if he has a family. In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. 10 years after flight school graduation. Start date has no impact on this. Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. The Army has more career Enlisted willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer and increasein pay for the family, with or without a degree. One Academy cadet I spoke with (lets call him Stan) has always wanted to be a military pilot. The Army must also capture the opinions of those it can still retain. Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. Cadets, who have not experienced the Army for even one day as an officer, are now asked to commit up to eleven years for the opportunity to fly for six yearsif they are luckywhile spending the rest of that time on staff, in professional military education, or in broadening assignments. My formation barely ever conducts social events. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. Hah right. I wish thiswasa little more clear. It will harm recruiting and we will continue to bleed talent into the civilian aviation market. In the last decade, retention has always been a hot-button issue. Really sucks for all the street2seat guys coming in or anyone that has prior Aviation experience on the outside. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? The security accrediation level of this site is Unclassified FOUO and below. The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said.