Prices can change quickly! And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. She was our original CPO and after the series A, she moved on to roller, another company and we promoted someone internally to CPO. In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. Yeah. His passion for relieving the stress for others in apartment rentals has given birth to a venture which has now raised $90 million, has experienced tremendous growth, and boasts a VC line up of some of the most prized investors in Silicon Valley. Anthemos Georgiades: Its part of the game. At series A, you got to show product market set in a sub vertical. So our CFO is fantastic and what he was able to bring to the series C was real credibility where I meet the investors, get them excited about our vision and our story and then they spend hours with the CFO on the second or third meeting digesting our historical financial as were talking about where were headed. Hes raising money now. Theyre both incredibly smart as are my executive team who are also like critical to fundraise where Ill go in and sell the vision often alone. So the way we monetize this is we either monetize the landlord mainly and we either charge them to leads. They take every, some people go and warm theirif you have a brilliant idea, theyd be crazy not to take it and then their entire value is obviously give you a three month program and then at the end expose you to liek 40 investors. So for the business, Anthemos, how much capital have you guys raised today? How autonomous can people be at the junior levels? Got it. hendrick motorsports hats; anthemos georgiades net worth You shameless have to mine your network and I think all CEOs and entrepreneurs have to find that edge of how did they meet one of these investors, how did they meet someone that knows them. Anthemos Georgiades is the CEO and co-founder at Zumper. Its a good question. Alejandro: Got it. Its not about the ski trips and any of that you know. And talking about hustling the network, was there any because I mean those networks that you have I think the network of Harvard is really fantastic and then you know the BCG as well but is there like any process that you followed to really like leverage the network? So it was never I want to be an entrepreneur journey. They are the two ways that Zumper currently monetizes them and there are two folks that [11:35]. The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Well, first of all, your point about quashing the egg and shooting the chicken. You know its interesting that you mentioned the chicken and the egg. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Every fantastic company has had hundreds of nos on the way to kind of huge outcomes and you just cant take it personally. It is not suppose to be easy. At college in the UK, Ive had like multiple [00:58] renting apartments. So thats how Zumper got started. You start to build depth and management structures. How do you scale like 20 million in revenue to 200 million in revenue and we didnt need the more product set investors because we already have fantastic people at that. You shameless have to mine your network and I think all CEOs and entrepreneurs have to find that edge of how did they meet one of these investors, how did they meet someone that knows them. We envisioned a world in which a renter can find apartments, book in [tour 10:18], turn up the [10:21] and if they want to take the apartment pre-qualify, leave a deposit and book the apartment. Got it. @zumper Stories Uncategorized Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Zumper which is a little bigger in terms of audience now caters more to urban professionals moving within cities. And so when you think about AB testing frameworks, you think about how many started [03:43] that is a [03:44] grad school taught me. Oh yeah, on the seed round back in 2012, we had probably five investors come in to the seed round so we kind of had five yeses who put in small checks. If you want me to do your fundraising for you, click here. How many listings do we have on the site? So what I wanted to ask you here is in terms of on boarding lets say this type of, because its a different beast, you know type of investors so how does the approach from evaluating an investor that is a VC, an angel or an angel group shift towards evaluating a potential strategic corporation that is looking to become part of your cap table? You rarely have enough data to make the absolutely correct decision and I think a lot of businesses fail especially start ups when they dont make decisions fast enough and in business schools, the case study methods taught me how to feel confident in making decisions without perfect information and how to use data to kind of then review once youve launched, whether it was right or wrong. And it was just [22:11] during the process that its a startup, were at growth stage but not to expect to be able to predict our courses like that public company again. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah, sure. Obviously they knew and I think for us it was like telling Axle and the rest of our investors that there are going to be months where we massively beat plans and there will be months where were behind plans. Were incredibly grateful for everything she did and she remains kind of shareholder in the company. Read More: Sujal Patel On Selling His First Business For $2.6 Billion And Now Raising $108 Million From Jeff Bezos And Others To Improve Medical Diagnostics. So lets talk about Zumper here. We raised like a million dollars in seed money, that was running out so we tried various things that didnt work and I think the fabric of our culture that is still true today when we have a hundred people is built in the dark days and those days where your stuff is not working, your users arent growing, and how you look at your teammates and how you guys turn up on a Monday morning after a really crappy week the week before where maybe someone quit or maybe the metrics went south. Got it. I love it. And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. If you want me to help you with your fundraising, just book a call. It is ultimately the culture. Yeah. I say like in the first pitch to the day the money wires, theres always been around like a minimum of three months. Alejandro: Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? So what is the best way, Anthemos, for people that are listening to reach out and say hi? We saw it would take three to six months to integrate Pat Mapper and their backend that engineering project we worked really hard and quickly just over a year to integrate so we underestimated like how much work was required to integrate them by 3x. You kind of just all in [06:39] I think where the carving of the rose start to happen for me around 10, 12 people where you no longer just have [06:49]. Really good strategy to differentiate the demographics and were super happy with how it went down. How many landlords did we have on the site? Really, really nice to have you here and excited for the chat that we have ahead here. But oh we must have had like 20 persons or 20 people say not now or later. Great question. Since 2012, Anth has grown Zumper to over 100 employees and raised $90 million in venture capital for the company. How do you take a company with those tractions, 10 million in revenue. Its hard. And then as we looked at the C round, Axle Springer are fantastic good example [19:59]. It happened but I wouldnt say its like an obvious part. Based in San Francisco, Anth leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. So Id say your first month you spend like getting first, second, third meeting. Zumper Board Member Related Hubs So I think as your company matures, you look for investors that have something that you dont have and so for us, were not yet doing $100 million in revenue. I think at that stage it makes sense. And as you know as and your listeners know, youre going to get a lot of nos on the way. They were super lean team of under five people and its been a great deal for Zumper like we have one backend, one sales team and then two consumer platforms. Everyone in Boston, everyone in New York were straight nos and [25:15] didnt get second meetings but then a month later we came to Silicon Valley and we found a much better product market set for the kind of investor who was prepared to come early and invest early and we got a lot of yeses very quickly. We also actually had a really wonderful fourth cofounder whos no longer with us. How does the day to day at Zumper work? Like what have you seen that really works? In terms of investors, I guess two comments. So that was great. Alejandro: Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. So the series B, weve done story now look at how quickly the renters are growing on the platform. You know marketplaces and liquidity is king like you were pointing to finding what you need in the shortest period of time because otherwise theyre going to go elsewhere. Saying that, if you do have multiple term sheets the second point is of course, like before you get to liquidity, revenue is irrelevant and if revenue gets in the way of bringing either the consumer on to your platform or the supply side person on to your platform, you should not be trying to charge. Got it. Anthemos Georgiades CEO at Zumper United States 4K followers 500+ connections Join to view profile Zumper Harvard Business School Websites Websites Company Website http://www.zumper.com Company. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time. Because I speak with a ton of founders that are perhaps opening up the possibility of bringing on corporations and I think that you need to really do it right. My friend have had to camp out overnight outside the property management office to get access to the new apartment and this is [01:09] you know things coming online, you can order a cab via phone, you can book a hotel online. Alejandro: Got it. It looks better for investors and it makes your life easier. I knew the CEO for a while. So I guess for those listeners that are looking at acquiring other companies to perhaps grow a little bit faster, what kind of advice would you give to them? So when you go in to a fundraising in terms of preparation the most important thing is that your last six months are great and your most important metrics are all growing really nicely so kind of five, six months in a row that is a fantastic story to tell to an investor. The reality is often in the early stages, youre going to want to take all the capital thats given to you and you may not have multiple term sheets. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs, Anthemos Georgiades was drawn into startup life to solving a burning problem. Alejandro: Got it. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. I really enjoyed it and great stuff. And so I finally just gave in and thought no one is going to build this. We want investors who look at $100 million in revenue as table stakes but they wont agree to a billion. There could be investors who are fantastic. We both wanted to be entrepreneurs. So I saw for example Axle Springer which is you know more kind of like the corporate. He runs all the background of operation and he came from the real estate industry, two completely different background and neither of them was an obvious pick when I started the company at grad school. At series B, you got to show product market set across the board with the revenue and then at series C, you got to show real traction and real revenue and a proper P&L. You just get to this kind of motion of you all feel the same and you kind of pull in the same direction. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Its a Greek name, British accent. But theres no right answer in business. I knew the CEO for a while. We love our investors. You are going to get a bunch of nos so I wouldnt rule people out too early. A lot of that is in the bank. So all good companies have multiple offers on the table. He's raised $39.2 million in venture capital, grown the team to 70+, and completed the acquisition of apartment search platform PadMapper. Hello, everyone, to the DealMakers Show. Alejandro: Got it. So you kind of just have to [25:29] but just to be clear yeah, we had far more nos than yeses at the seed round. So tell me your story a little bit here, Anthemos. And were they like obviously now youre opening here the cap table to a different breed and I guess when that happen probably at a strategic level lets say from a board perspective or something you know, maybe you receive some type of recommendations whether it was with this corporation or with other corporations as to what perhaps to look for and what to avoid. There could be investors who are fantastic. Stay informed using all the free online rental data out there (like Zumper's national rent report). So Ill read it if anyone tweets anything interesting or if I can be helpful in anyway. Keeping good lines of communication open can solve many landlord/tenant problems. A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. So I guess in your guys case, how do you deal with the egos and then more importantly how did you define the responsibilities early on so that you kind of have that healthy culture going on? When people ask me what Im most nervous about its how to keep our amazing team together, a couple of tactics and then one thing that really worked. [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. You look at your cofounders and you know that they understand that and that theyre not freaking out, that is where you build real institutional culture and then you try and grow that across the team. You are going to get a bunch of nos so I wouldnt rule people out too early. Your job as the CEO and the founder is to convince your investors of the reason to do this. We love our investors. The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. I was just talking to a friend of mine about this. Shalin Amin Chief Experience Officer. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. There was no book [01:41]. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Rental listing startup with more than 26 million users. Were growing very quickly but none of that was true obviously in the first two years. Meaning hey, we send you a ton of leads this month that close in to leases. Youll get terms sheets and yeses hopefully quicker than that but this process takes a while and as the money increases and a few rounds become more complicated, it can take more than three months as well. Background Report for Anthemos Paul Georgiades Includes Age, Location, Address History for Anthemos Paul Georgiades Arrest, Criminal, & Driving Records Social Media Profiles And so as you mature you look for a different kind of investor and that naturally tends to happen. Yeah. You just cant get spooked. Remember to unlock for free the pitch deck template that is being used by founders around the world to raise millions below. Zumper CEO & Co-Founder Anthemos Georgiades makes renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel, shares insights on monetizing marketplaces, diversifying r. Got it. And in terms of preparation, Anthemos, how has the preparation like preparing before going to market to start engaging investors, how have you seen with your business, with Zumper, how have you seen that changed over time as the rounds were maturing? Anthemos Georgiades: So Zumper is the vision for the company is to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Saying that, if you do have multiple term sheets the second point is of course, like before you get to liquidity, revenue is irrelevant and if revenue gets in the way of bringing either the consumer on to your platform or the supply side person on to your platform, you should not be trying to charge. If you guys are Zumper website, you can kind of kind at zumper.com the Contact Us or on Twitter I am just @anthemos, A-N-T-H-E-M-O-S on Twitter and yeah, I respond to people. Anthemos Georgiades. I mean to a point network gets you an intro but a lot of intros are 10 minute meetings where the VC immediately decides its not for them which is totally fair. It was kind of [31:51] as early as we did to buy another stock up that was kind of four years in. In terms of the dynamics, I think in the early days, you kind of through osmosis graduate towards like the things that are important. Got it. And then my other cofounder Kurt Taylor I met through his mother who was an [04:43] and it was another example of just pure hustle. So our CFO is fantastic and what he was able to bring to the series C was real credibility where I meet the investors, get them excited about our vision and our story and then they spend hours with the CFO on the second or third meeting digesting our historical financial as were talking about where were headed. Thats your job. Alejandro: Got it. It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. Were going to charge you per lead or for the smaller landlords we charge them if theyre [11:15] for the transaction. I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. So Im completely there with you. So it doesnt always work out and I think thats fine. Got it. I think Id say forget everything you think you know and everything, your education [38:28]. It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. Were very clear with Axle Springer that we have a lot of consumer scale so a lot of people use our platform on a monthly basis but were still building the [21:55]. So Zumper is the vision for the company is to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. And [14:42] in Silicon Valley is married to [graphics 14:43] mostly in terms of great companies just break out and succeed [agnostic 14:48] as to where people went to college or if they came from a wealthy or poor family. I think if you hire four cofounders like yourself, thats difficult and luckily we didnt have that problem. So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. We both wanted to be entrepreneurs. Yeah. Alejandro: Got it. Alejandro: So Im completely there with you. Zumper CEO and co-founder May 2012 Board and Advisor Roles Number of Current Board & Advisor Roles 1 Anthemos Georgiades is the Board Member at Zumper. You can set the expectations and then see what happens and if its not a good fit upfront, you can go with the different option on the table. Alejandro: Got it. 1. Obviously they knew and I think for us it was like telling Axle and the rest of our investors that there are going to be months where we massively beat plans and there will be months where were behind plans. So paradoxically, I dont think the core DNA of a companys culture is built at ski tracks or offsite. Back to Meet the San Francisco Business Times' 40 under 40 Class of 2018. [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. It seemed crazy that the real estate industry wasnt moving towards on demand. It was always a man, there is a really tough problem that consumers experience and no one is solving it. I mean at the end of the day, building and scaling companies especially when youre at the early stages is all about survival and its all about learning to be with each other behind the trenches and really going to war and having each others backs. Russell Middleton Co-Founder. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. Yeah. I was also doing, Ive been doing marketplaces for I think like 10 years now and I remember in the last company, I would go and meet with investors and they kept asking me for the chicken and the egg. It was always a man, there is a really tough problem that consumers experience and no one is solving it. So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? At series B, you got to show product market set across the board with the revenue and then at series C, you got to show real traction and real revenue and a proper P&L. All photos courtesy of Forbes Councils members. Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. I have no experience doing that. But I will say the one thing is true is that you always raise on momentum. So if the story has changed in a way that merits the focus of the company but what is consistent every single time weve raised is that for six months in a row, we had really, really quick growth. So that was great. Retention is something I think about every day. So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. Anthemos lives in San Francisco, where Zumper is HQd, with his wife. We didnt go that route because I have the network but if I didnt have the network and some people have the network and still do it, they are really good cheap in to getting scaled quickly. Raising money first, marketplace businesses is still really difficult and Ive raised $90 million and Im still saying it is difficult. So when you go in to a fundraising in terms of preparation the most important thing is that your last six months are great and your most important metrics are all growing really nicely so kind of five, six months in a row that is a fantastic story to tell to an investor. Thank you so much. Anthemos was an undergrad at Oxford when he noticed how problematic renting an apartment . Youre supposed to try six things that dont work. You know its interesting that you mentioned the chicken and the egg. Vishal Makhijani President & COO. It is ultimately the culture. How autonomous can people be at the junior levels? Of course. Anthemos Georgiades: Oh wow, good question. And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. Budget in my opinion perhaps should be allocated to something else. I know entrepreneurs who spend nine months raising their rounds which is a long time but they got great rounds done. So we want to be the first ever kind of full stack rental platform for long term leases and we monetize that two ways.