As I think youre hinting here, a certain amount of theology (what proportion, I dont know) is in reality nothing more than a minority social science. Jeff S, Does it help that the Institutes that we have today began with a normal-sized book that Calvin added to over about a 24-year period, and was not the case of a mad obsessive locking himself in a room for a year or two? "Eastview Christian Church pastor, Mike Baker, resigns after son, Caleb Baker, is fired from Central Christian Church for adultery" Why? Going to church in the north during those days was different. Theyre like rival sects of Muslims in Iraq & Syria. In fact, as Sproul describes what he sees as the sovereignty if God, his view is the latter- that God exercises his sovereignty by choosing what he allows and what he does not. But the rest of the bad stuff? Ah yes, those were the days A friend of mine came to the Lord while living in the hills above Santa Barbara in a teepee and smoking a lot of pot He and his wife were some of the most sane, grounded people I knew in the 80s. His interpretation of Christianity, advanced above all in his Institutio Christianae . Being able to truly believe that God predestined us for salvation, but never for damnation. I think that desiring a nice complete and in itself non-contradictory theological system is our undoing. That's pretty darn impressive, and many many . First list Randy Alcorn Thabiti Anyabwile Tom Ascol Voddie Baucham Joel Beeke Alistair Begg Jon Bloom Loraine Boettner James Pettigru Boyse John Calvin (of course) D.A. That has been my experience in dealing with Calvinists online, or lurking at their forums or blogs, yes. I am a new Methodist pastor, a woman who has a great deal of respect for people who love the Lord and are serious about their study. In addition to Dees remarks on unity, Id also like to add the following: we all accept the historic Christian creeds of the early church (Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian) and the church councils, which means we all accept the most important teachings on Christs Person, His Deity and resurrection, and the teachings on the Trinity. I didn't quite understand the sin stuff. I used try but I have given up. If they use their beliefs to beat people over the head, they are obviously jerks. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Again, if it were a matter of someone, as I put it earlier, beating someone over the head with their beliefs, that would be different. Sproul Steve Lawson Voddie Bachham Wayne Grudem People Guilty Of Greatly Spreading The False "Free Will" Gospel: Bill Bright Billy Graham Charles Finney This one may sound like ad hominem at first blush, but I mean it more as an observation of the . Man is completely helpless in his sinful state, is under the . I believe in Penal Substitutionary Atonement. http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/reformed-theology/arminianism/calvinism-vs-arminianism-comparison-chart/, http://www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/topic/happiness/helping-others, http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2013/09/dont-mess-with-texas-baptists_2.html, http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/ravagedfaith.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . This can apply to spiritual things, to living life with God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. I ended up writing my final essay for my theology degree on the extent of the atonement. Hes describing man, not God. what, exactly, is this thing called glory that we bring to God? People, including you, got upset from Calvinists just stating their views. This is an absolutely beautiful statement! By no means is this true, and Im willing to bet it never really has been. People, including you, got upset from Calvinists just stating their views. We really, really need it. . It simply makes it harder for people who are trying to recover from abuse, and continue to believe that God is good and loves them, to want to engage in a search for Truth. @ Muff Potter: I know this all too well, Im afraid, but it goes for *anything* even art, music, theater, etc. By wrong, do you mean untrue? My hubby got his first spiritual stirrings while watching a live performance of, Jesus Christ Superstar. Bummer. So, does God elect people who are only a little totally depraved as opposed to those who are totally totally depraved? I check out on their sub and they lile John Calvin and said that his theologybwas a major necessity to make their 33(?) who needs systems & neat little boxes? Instead, you consider this shorthand for biblical Christianity. Every puzzle piece in its perfect place, no room for any doubt It must start somewhere and with those who are willing to give up their cherished arguments for the sake of something better. If Im wrong, I apologize. Now.as to the flavor of Christian, Ill probably have you explain, if you mention something Im not familiar with or dont understand. What do you think I see within Calvinism that might make it hard for me to accept that system? Youd be welcome at the table in my wigwam too Jeff. How to Resign from a Church I think of it as humility and respecting my limitations, but I understand the line between humility and doublethink is quite thin. My young son-in-law has just been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. I really think that we have to go to Scripture with the intent of honestly, to the best of our ability, seeing what it says and submitting to its truth, instead of wanting it to confirm our beliefs. It depends, some advocates of Reformed theology say, on whether Christians on both sides are willing to tiptoe through the TULIP-the acrostic for five doctrinal points that set apart Calvinists. Those who fell outside the box and had to be pushed away I became a Christian at the age of 17, having been raised in Salem, Massachusetts, in what was essentially a non Christian home. It is a goal of this blog to extendthe dialog to include Calvinists and even find areas with which we can agree. Groovy, man. Membership Covenants Good post Dee (If Im allowed to comment on this one!). who needs systems & neat little boxes? Just happy to be able to trust that God really is good again. Believe me, Ive tried. Dee, thank you so much for asking for prayers for my son-in-law! I have read extensively within the Calvinist system by approved authors including Calvin, himself, Grudem, Sproul, Piper, etc. Ive not tried to convince anyone to be a Calvinist. @ Julie Anne: I had no reason not to believe. Instead of debating, try to learn from the other person. You are still lost in your finite mind. 2) Dee, all this proves is you are a weirdness magnet. Calvinism may be cool right now, but it doesnt reflect the God I have known and loved for over 40 years. I am loving this discussion!!!!!! To breath it. Their scholarship seems smug and oddly ineffectual (quoted by one mother) and yes, it later became apparent that The Way was actually doctrinally aberrant and yet through this article you were drawn to Jesus, so maybe this suggests God sometimes uses unlikely means to create new believers? This is a big issue for me, because theres a difference in believing in PSA and believing it is central to the Gospel or that believing a different atonement theology is a different Gospel. And when you [Calvinists whom he is addressing] quote Charles Spurgeons words equating Calvinism and the gospel (a place where I believe the great Spurgeon got it wrong), you are not saying that those of us who do not subscribe to all the points of Calvinism fail to believe the gospel. OK, but if you choose to do evil instead of good, I mean. The simple interpretation of total depravity is this: because you are human (totally), you are perpetually and inexorably morally corrupt, and the only way you can understand any truth is if God functionally does it for you via the doctrine of arbitrary election. I believe that I am endowed by my Creator with the power to put an end to the vast majority of human misery and suffering in this life It begins with me as a single drop in a vast ocean. Kentucky. 2) Everything that happens is scripted by God and is good for us. In spite of the current emphasis on Neo-Calvinism, it is still a minority position. That article Early Jesus Freak Movement Hollywood Free Paper country As Sixties(TM) as Rowan & Martins Laugh-In and then some. Probably about 0.27 Pinkie Pies worth. Im eagerly awaiting my next blog post, too The blog kind of fell off the wayside due to some personal stuff that ate up most of my time. I have come to understand that my experience in some great non-Calvinist churches is not the norm. Per PSA, I am pretty sure that that is the official stance of the Lutheran end of thingsbut I really shouldnt be talking about theories of the atonement because I havent studied them worth a hoot. Because he did not adhere to the beliefs of his well-known pastor. I know this sounds like a broad brush, but I think people need to know this dirty little secret. Neither is TULIP. Hence, your free will is categorically subject to Gods absolute control (meaning, God allowing is functionally the exact same thing as Him not allowing; anything that happens happens as a direct function of his will, either via that positive (allowing) or the negative (not allowing)in either case, your free will is utterly under Gods sovereign control. They never want to explain just what this glory is, as you said. Inevitably, then, youll sometimes find restless young men who want to make a name for themselves (and who hasnt been there) (other than restless young women) will take the idea and make it a point of honour to run as far as they can with it. Even though I have now separated myself from that belief system, connecting with those words brought me right back to those intense feelings of God was right there watching me get abused and didnt do a darn thing about it. So I posted my abuse story/Calvin connection and have tried to keep that thread safe. The Calvinism debate thread is a great place to really get into the nitty gritty of those tough issues. But my point wasnt to proof text Calvin. Maybe I need to learn how to live with it better. This short paper contains a list of common-sense and biblical arguments and counter-arguments against Calvinism and predestination. For example, we should never, ever turn our backs on child sex abuse because the pastor in the church where it happened is one of our good buddies. This sort of stuff is bad and will cause an increase in problems within the church universal. Although occasionally hurt by these accusations of heresy, he responds like a gentleman. So thankful to be free, now. I believe Sproul when he says that he knows of no Calvinist who, without any difficulty, welcomed what the Bible said about election, etc.
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